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biology

  • Klug•...

    Everyone is a fisherman, just nobody knows anything about fish...

    It's funny how many people claim to be fishermen especially with social media these days all you have to do is take a couple pictures with some fish more often than most people in boom you're considered basically unsponsored professional fisherman and sometimes sponsored....
    biology
    ecology
    fisheries
    fishing techniques
    limnology
    Comments
    0
  • W

    PLANTS ARE NOT CONSCIOUS.  

     

    This is my response to a post to a Facebook group post about the idea that plants and animals without brains have consciousness; that plants, and other life forms without nervous systems like ours, might also have it. The comment, albeit popular in a trendy sorta' way, is far from justified. Here's why:

     

     

    _____________________________________

    Moving the Goal Posts:

     

    To start with consciousness isn’t being found in plants. There’s no evidence for that at all. What is happening is that the word itself is being reframed to include more physical processes than intellectual reflection. That’s not new, panpsychism has been around for hundreds of years, probably longer. What’s changed isn’t the "discovery", it’s the cultural redefining of what consciousness is. With all of the obstacles to overcome creating AIs, computer science started taking it seriously, so people stopped laughing at the idea, and that tolerance has spread to neurology and layman speculations about nature; BUT let’s be clear, there is no actual evidence for plant consciousness at all. None. There’s just a social shift to how popular culture is saying it should be defined. The problem being that simple reaction ISN'T consciousness.

    When people say “plants are conscious,” what they’re really describing is what a plant does when it’s faced with something that might harm it, but that’s not awareness, it’s an evolved physical response. You grow your hair for evolutionary reasons too, but are you aware of your hair growing? Can you choose for it not to? Are you monitoring the process as it happens

     

     

    __________________________________________________

    What Actually is Consciousness?

     

    Consciousness is an evolved, sophisticated result of the need for certain animals to move in complex ways for complex reasons. Take pain, as one example. Why does pain exist? Because when we’re in pain, we move away from it, QUICKLY. That’s its purpose. If you had to analyze pain before reacting, if say you leaned on a stove and had to think about whether to move or not, you’d be badly burned before you finished the thought. Pain bypasses thought. It makes us act now. It evolved due to the need for instant mobility.

     

    A tree can’t move quickly. It doesn’t need pain. It doesn’t need that kind of awareness. ITS strategy is to become strong and massive so to withstand harm rather than avoid it. Grass handles harm by being flexible and abundant; one blade dies, another takes its place, the species survives. There’s no evolutionary pressure there for the kind of awareness pain provides animals. And since all of the emotions function as contextually behavioral presets using mobility as its medium like pain, plants have no reason to evolve those either.

     

    Those preset reactions in us, are the roots of what we call “awareness.” The stored memories of predicted contexts that allows us to adjust our reactions more or less appropriately become our beliefs. And the total structural paradigm of those beliefs along with the emotions and awareness, cause our self-awareness, and our inner life, and THAT’s what we call "consciousness."

     

     

    _______________________________________________________________

    If Plants Don't Think, What Are We Looking At?

     

    Another thing people with this "plants think" idea get wrong is that plants quite literally don’t think or talk to each other. More accurately put, they react to each other through fungi. It’s the fungi doing the coordination, not the plant. So if we want to assign consciousness to something you don't assign it to the foot, you assign it to the brain, if you git what I'm sayin'. Through mycorrhizal symbiosis fungi trade their stability and ability to distribute resources for the plant’s sugar and energy. The fungi decide how nutrients, water, and chemical signals are shared. If you want to talk about something “brain-like,” it’s the fungi, not the tree. The fungi organize the forest. The plant itself just reacts.

     

    And this kind of cooperation; one organism joining with another to create a larger, organized whole; isn’t unique to plants and fungi. It happens between animals and like with pollinators, even between animals and plants. Then there's when one plant or animal survives as a parasite of the other. Interestingly, the prevailing theory is that this is how single-celled life evolved in the first place. One simple cell drifting through the world, over time, adapts to new environments and splits into variations. Two different variations meet again, and as it happens come to work together as it helped them both survive. The ones that don’t cooperate either have to evolve differently to survive or die out, and the ones working together, integrated until eventually one cell absorbed the other. The idea is that, that's how modern cells got their inner mechanisms, like the cell's nucleus, that made them more complex cells than just the simpler walled off sectioned cells that they'd evolved from.

     

    Were those early cells (or even the modern ones) “conscious”? Of course not. They're only cells. But can they react? Absolutely. Reaction and cooperation aren’t awareness. They’re steps toward complexity.

     

     

    _____________________________________________________

    The Brain Itself is Not Responsible:

     

    The post also brought up the idea that animals without centralized brains have their own consciousness, without a brain, and yeah, I'd have to agree with that. The thing is though, the pivotal mechanism creating consciousness isn’t the brain itself. It’s the nervous system within the brain. The brain works because it’s a highly organized communication network like hardware capable of running complex, shifting contexts. That’s what lets us think and feel. An octopus, as an example, has a distributed nervous system that allows for a similar kind of complexity, even though it’s organized differently than a centralized brain with a spinal cord.

     

    So yes, you can have a brain without consciousness, but you can’t have consciousness without a nervous system (or something equally complex to serve as the hardware) .....even an analogue machine would do the job, it just wouldn't be as quick as what animals have. Plants don’t have that. Their structure simply doesn’t allow for the kind of integrated, layered processing that consciousness requires.

     

     

    ______________________________________________________________

    But We Aren't Plants, How Can We Know For Sure?:

     

    And I think it important to address an argument possibly implied in all of this; the idea that plant consciousness might just be too alien for us to recognize is neither an objective position, nor is it true. That we can’t judge them by our standards because we don’t share the same kind of mind doesn't keep us from a clear analysis and comparison of the mechanisms involved. This idea contradicts itself.

     

    Our definitions of consciousness come from us, from humans observing and describing the world. Plants aren’t taking part in that. The word “consciousness” belongs to the language of beings talking to themselves, not the plants. If you say plants have it, you’re already using the word differently than someone who says they don’t, and in a way that compares what they experience to ours. Their assumptions are in the possibility of that comparison.

     

    It’s not that we can’t know either way, that our hands are tied and we've no choice but to remain agnostic on this. The arguments I've already made stand on their own. It’s that we’re talking about different things entirely. People who side with making the determination rest on a definition of "consciousness" that's precise enough to be used deductively, making this a 'yes' or 'no' answer, while people who side with not making that determination rest on the idea that we don't really know what "consciousness" is.

     

    The thing is, is that while we can't know the intricate details about every last horse that exists, WE ACTUALLY DO have a clear definition of what "horse" means regardless of the infinite focus on those details, and as long as the same can be said for "consciousness", whether anything has it, will be at some point determinable. That is UNLESS, some of us are determined to keep moving the goal posts without considering the mechanism, and the definition keeps becoming blurred.

     

    To hopefully hit this point home, remember the old “how do I know your blue, is my blue?” argument? Sure, we can’t directly feel each other’s experience objectively, without tainting our perspectives with our own individual views, but what we can do is look at the mechanisms that produce them. We can see how the brain processes light, how those processes create the experience of color, and then compare those mechanisms between people. From that, we can define what the “blue” mechanism is, and how we're experiencing the same and different things when the color pops up. The same goes for consciousness. We can see the structures that support awareness, memory, and emotional integration, and plants simply don’t have them. So unless we stretch “consciousness” to mean “anything that reacts,” there’s simply no reason to say plants have it.

     

     

    ______________________________________________________________

    The Popularity of the Idea That They Do:

     

    So why are so many jumping on the bandwagon? It's the other "old" story. People project themselves into everything in order to understand them. It's anthropomorphism 101. Some of us can't even analyze anything without projecting our self centered human traits on to it. It's why prejudices pollute so many of the beliefs of so many of the people you see around you. Whenever you say to yourself "How can this guy be so blinded by this crazy idea?" think about what's happening here and whether there's actually anything at all pointing to the idea that plants can think.

     

    Merrengue•...

    Feet are parts. Walking is a pattern. Consciousness, to me, is a pattern; not a possession. Plants don’t need feet to grow, and systems don’t need to “have” awareness to participate in it.

    philosophy
    cognitive science
    biology
    Comments
    0
  • Wayne Nirenberg•...

    PLANTS ARE NOT CONSCIOUS

    This is my response to a post to a Facebook group post about the idea that plants and animals without brains have consciousness; that plants, and other life forms without nervous systems like ours, might also have it....
    philosophy
    biology
    neuroscience
    Comments
    15
  • jordan avatar

    looks like I've been wrong and spreading misinformation about the disproven "triune brain theory".

    The final—and most important—problem with this mistaken view is the implication that anatomical evolution proceeds in the same fashion as geological strata, with new layers added over existing ones. Instead, much evolutionary change consists of transforming existing parts. 

    - From https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0963721420917687#con1

    I have definitely made this mistake, many many times.

    I'm not sure yet the implications of recognizing instead that "all vertebrates possess the same basic brain regions, here divided into the forebrain, midbrain, and hindbrain;" in some ways it seems like a nuance, but in other ways I think it'll shift how I see things and talk about things. 

    more quotes in case you don't read the article:

    neural and anatomical complexity evolved repeatedly within many independent lineages

    the correct view of evolution is that animals radiated from common ancestors (Fig. 1c). Within these radiations, complex nervous systems and sophisticated cognitive abilities evolved independently many times. For example, cephalopod mollusks, such as octopus and cuttlefish, possess tremendously complex nervous systems and behavior (Mather & Kuba, 2013), and the same is true of some insects and other arthropods (Barron & Klein, 2016; Strausfeld, Hansen, Li, Gomez, & Ito, 1998). Even among nonmammalian vertebrates, brain complexity has increased independently several times, particularly among some sharks, teleost fishes, and birds (Striedter, 1998).

    The idea that larger brains can be equated with increased behavioral complexity is highly debatable (Chittka & Niven, 2009). 

    jordanSA•...
    I'm still learning, but my current sense is that the mechanistic claims are disproven given current understanding of biology and evolution, but the narrative is compelling enough (just like you've said) that it persists....
    psychology
    biology
    evolution
    scientific criticism
    Comments
    0
  • jordan avatar

    looks like I've been wrong and spreading misinformation about the disproven "triune brain theory".

    The final—and most important—problem with this mistaken view is the implication that anatomical evolution proceeds in the same fashion as geological strata, with new layers added over existing ones. Instead, much evolutionary change consists of transforming existing parts. 

    - From https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0963721420917687#con1

    I have definitely made this mistake, many many times.

    I'm not sure yet the implications of recognizing instead that "all vertebrates possess the same basic brain regions, here divided into the forebrain, midbrain, and hindbrain;" in some ways it seems like a nuance, but in other ways I think it'll shift how I see things and talk about things. 

    more quotes in case you don't read the article:

    neural and anatomical complexity evolved repeatedly within many independent lineages

    the correct view of evolution is that animals radiated from common ancestors (Fig. 1c). Within these radiations, complex nervous systems and sophisticated cognitive abilities evolved independently many times. For example, cephalopod mollusks, such as octopus and cuttlefish, possess tremendously complex nervous systems and behavior (Mather & Kuba, 2013), and the same is true of some insects and other arthropods (Barron & Klein, 2016; Strausfeld, Hansen, Li, Gomez, & Ito, 1998). Even among nonmammalian vertebrates, brain complexity has increased independently several times, particularly among some sharks, teleost fishes, and birds (Striedter, 1998).

    The idea that larger brains can be equated with increased behavioral complexity is highly debatable (Chittka & Niven, 2009). 

    daveSA•...
    That book explicitly smashes the triune brain theory.  Working from memory here, one of the puzzle pieces in the books is: the growth of these different parts of the brain is turned on and off by chemical signalling and otherwise it's a common architecture - so you can induce...
    ethics
    biology
    neuroscience
    Comments
    0
  • sness avatar

    Is having children selfish or selfless? Controversial question/interesting discussion time!

    Is having children a selfish or a selfless act?

    I'll put my thoughts in comments - would love to hear yours :)

    jordanSA•...
    I had a similar response to the first point — the compulsion to procreate is life - it's the least selfish thing one can do. We went from single celled organisms to fish to apes to us because of that compulsion (along with a bunch of other stuff)....
    philosophy
    biology
    environmental science
    evolution
    Comments
    0
  • jordan avatar

    Monogamy v polyamory. Is monogamy better? Is poly better? Is there an overall norm for people, with exceptions? Is it totally pluralistic? Here are some points for monogamy, with some counter points, to convey some of my uncertainty but nevertheless leaning into what I’ve chosen:

    • Point: I don’t know a single polyamorous couple that’s lasted more than a decade, whereas I know a ton of lifelong monogamous couples.
      • Counterpoint: many of the lifelong monogamous couples are not healthy relationships
        • Counter-counter-point: perhaps being in a lifelong commitment, even if the relationship isn’t ideal, is more healthy than being hyper-independent, especially as you get older. This runs right up against boundaries, how to know what to tolerate/love as is, when to leave, etc
    • Point: The poly focus of attention tends to be the relationships themselves, often a kind of relational narcissism, rather than the relationship being a foundation for engaging the world in love (ironically). This is my version of the poly is impractical argument. Most of the people I meet practicing polyamory are constantly putting tons and tons and tons of life energy into their relational problems, and it seems like their relationships are often built around addressing these problems rather than enjoying life together. The fact that it takes so much time and energy points to something being a little off. Monogamous relating also takes energy but it usually seems less self-referential; they’re more often helping each other face and engage the world, rather than face and engage each other and their relationship.
      • potential counterpoint: You’re making a developmental point Jordan, not a mono/poly point. Most people practice poly from a Red ego-centric POV; most people practice sex from Red as well. If you practice from a genuine Green+ polyamory, this doesn’t happen.
    • Point: Humans are largely monogamous; it’s instinctual
      • Counterpoint: How would we know if its cultural versus biological versus systemic versus psychological per person/family? it only takes a couple of generations of evolution to make massive physical changes, so even if it is biological, how could we know what’s possible for the future?
      • Counterpoint: people wanna fuck, especially dudes
      • Cheating, mistresses, polygamy, Sex at Dawn etc…
    • Point: Many poly people avoid endings, boundaries, standards, and facing their own karma by just jumping from relationships to relationship. Sure monogamous people do too, but many of them end up getting married and that crucible forces them to face their stuff. Far fewer poly people get married, and when they do they can still use other relationships to avoid their shit
      • Counterpoint: we can use absolutely everything to avoid our shit.

    there’s tons more, just want to get the convo started…

    fra•...
    It's fun to think, like science fiction, but it's totally alien to biological reality. Friendships between men are naturally poly, as the goal (hunting?, war?) needs large bands of affiliated men. Romantic relationships have a different goal (reproduction)....
    psychology
    sociology
    biology
    Comments
    0
  • jordanSA•...

    Have yall come across "Assembly Theory"?

    My first reading is that it's kinda a like a Christopher Alexander process take on what comprises life; eg: "The specific molecules in your body aren’t that old, but the lineage of these objects being reconstructed goes back that far....
    biology
    systems theory
    philosophy of science
    complexity theory
    Comments
    0
  • Sara Schultz avatar

    "Mom Brain". I was aware before I got pregnant that the "Mom Brain" phenomenon (brain fog, forgetfulness, etc) often has its onset during pregnancy but it has been really fascinating to experience firsthand what this is like sensationally (?) and emotionally. The "Mom Brain" seems to be gradually more and more noticeable and apart from objectively catching myself in more goofy little mistakes I am also noticing the like funny ambiguous itchy feeling that translates into the verbal though "I feel like I'm forgetting something" is becoming more and more common for me. I am a pretty starkly type A person and I am surprised how confronted that part of my identity feels as I make trivial mistakes that feel "out of character" for me - this experience has been so rare for me that I feel really "caught" when it happens and I don't have a script, relationally with others or my self, for handling these brain farts 💨

    silver lining: becoming a mother is obviously a huge transition that will entail the death and rebirth of many aspects of my identity - it can't hurt to be getting a taste of that process early on in the second trimester lol

    kendra•...
    I have heard that the “mom brain” phenomenon is actually tied to a really big neurological event that happens where your brain is creating space/attuning to that which matters most and requires, therefore, the most brain matter....
    psychology
    biology
    women's health
    neuroscience
    Comments
    0
  • dara_like_saraSA•...

    Can a worm be rehydrated?

    At what point does a worm truly die? If I see a kinda dried out worm on a sidewalk, can it be rehydrated? 

    biology
    zoology
    Comments
    3
  • tommy avatar

    Mars feels like a really important backup plan. If there’s even a small chance that Earth is fucked from global warming, we need to be able to go to Mars. I heard a cool concept that we can basically artificially create global warming on Mars by putting greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

    Unless it’s life or death, I personally wouldn’t move to a planet with less than a million people on it (imagine Austin is the entire world, that feels like the bare minimum for me).

    How much money and time would it take to get a million people to Mars?

    tommySA•...

    lol biology has failed 😂

    education
    biology
    science
    Comments
    0
  • jordan avatar

    Monogamy v polyamory. Is monogamy better? Is poly better? Is there an overall norm for people, with exceptions? Is it totally pluralistic? Here are some points for monogamy, with some counter points, to convey some of my uncertainty but nevertheless leaning into what I’ve chosen:

    • Point: I don’t know a single polyamorous couple that’s lasted more than a decade, whereas I know a ton of lifelong monogamous couples.
      • Counterpoint: many of the lifelong monogamous couples are not healthy relationships
        • Counter-counter-point: perhaps being in a lifelong commitment, even if the relationship isn’t ideal, is more healthy than being hyper-independent, especially as you get older. This runs right up against boundaries, how to know what to tolerate/love as is, when to leave, etc
    • Point: The poly focus of attention tends to be the relationships themselves, often a kind of relational narcissism, rather than the relationship being a foundation for engaging the world in love (ironically). This is my version of the poly is impractical argument. Most of the people I meet practicing polyamory are constantly putting tons and tons and tons of life energy into their relational problems, and it seems like their relationships are often built around addressing these problems rather than enjoying life together. The fact that it takes so much time and energy points to something being a little off. Monogamous relating also takes energy but it usually seems less self-referential; they’re more often helping each other face and engage the world, rather than face and engage each other and their relationship.
      • potential counterpoint: You’re making a developmental point Jordan, not a mono/poly point. Most people practice poly from a Red ego-centric POV; most people practice sex from Red as well. If you practice from a genuine Green+ polyamory, this doesn’t happen.
    • Point: Humans are largely monogamous; it’s instinctual
      • Counterpoint: How would we know if its cultural versus biological versus systemic versus psychological per person/family? it only takes a couple of generations of evolution to make massive physical changes, so even if it is biological, how could we know what’s possible for the future?
      • Counterpoint: people wanna fuck, especially dudes
      • Cheating, mistresses, polygamy, Sex at Dawn etc…
    • Point: Many poly people avoid endings, boundaries, standards, and facing their own karma by just jumping from relationships to relationship. Sure monogamous people do too, but many of them end up getting married and that crucible forces them to face their stuff. Far fewer poly people get married, and when they do they can still use other relationships to avoid their shit
      • Counterpoint: we can use absolutely everything to avoid our shit.

    there’s tons more, just want to get the convo started…

    jordanSA•...
    How could this not matter?! Wherther it’s instinctual for some and not others, versus whether it’s one way or another, seems to me to matter as much as any instincts!...
    psychology
    sociology
    biology
    relationships
    human behavior
    Comments
    0
  • annabeth avatar

    It's too intimidating for men to be men. Alright, here’s one of my most controversial opinions, and I’m gonna try to take the filter off as much as possible:

    Feminism has played out as retribution instead of solution. The Barbie movie is an entirely thorough example of what I’m talking about. You suppressed us, so we’re gonna use any means necessary to take over. And then they recreated the same imbalance in its opposite.

    I see most social movements do this too. True solutions to imbalances aren’t fair because they don’t have human-enacted payback. You suppressed us, so we’re going to move toward balance.

    I’ve been spending about 2 years trying to set aside my learned default into my masculine energy (having grown up in highly feminist orange/green) and learn how to root in my feminine. But my feminine longs for a tether to something rooted. Masculine energy feels rooted, solid, grounded, and my feminine very much doesn’t (though it is held by a spacious ok-ness, but it’s so airy it easily gets chaotic when not balanced in connection with a grounded masculine.)

    But I’ve had a hell of a time finding grounded healthy masculine men. Many of them can do it for a time, but then flee to an extreme, like angry resentment at one end and non-binary softness at the other end. And I think it’s because the culture has become super aggressive to men who are solidly men.

    jordanSA•...
    I agree that these frames are pretty wonky and often misused; I get really annoyed by the way many if not most people use the concept in personal growth culture. Most of the assumptions don’t hold across cultures....
    psychology
    sociology
    cultural studies
    gender studies
    linguistics
    biology
    personal growth
    Comments
    0
  • jordanSA•...

    Monogamy v polyamory

    Is monogamy better? Is poly better? Is there an overall norm for people, with exceptions? Is it totally pluralistic? Here are some points for monogamy, with some counter points, to convey some of my uncertainty but nevertheless leaning into what I’ve chosen: Point: I don’t know a...
    psychology
    philosophy
    sociology
    cultural studies
    biology
    relationships
    anthropology
    Comments
    47
  • dara_like_sara avatar

    Working out & Cortisol, Which exercise method is best? Many conflicting perspectives (often research-backed) exist on the best ways to keep your body healthy.

    Do HIIT for cardiovascular health, it’s the best thing for your heart

    Do LISS, it’s best for longevity

    Don’t do HIIT if you’re stressed out and already have elevated cortisol, as it will elevate your cortisol more, especially if you’re a woman

    Focus on slow flowing movements because it’s what our bodies are meant for

    Women should lift heavy, it’s the best way to build muscle and protect bone density

    Women should do exercise like pilates to build long, lean bodies and keep exercise core focused

    These are some of the things I’ve heard across various platforms…Huberman, Attia, My traditional Chinese Medicine dr, and random coaches that I’ve worked with.

    What are your beliefs about staying active? Whose ideas do you subscribe to the most? What’s your workout routine?

    jordanSA•...
    Yeah I agree about the payoff—I kinda want to say "do whatever you’ll actually do." I’m not in this domain very much, so I wonder—do these people talk about synergizing the psychological with the biological, the systemic and culture?...
    psychology
    sociology
    cultural studies
    biology
    Comments
    0
  • jordan avatar

    We need new gender categories, while preserving the distinctness of "man" and "woman". I don’t mind using different pronouns—I’m happy to love someone with whatever language they prefer.

    But I’d like to propose that deconstructing traditional genders is not only unnecessary, it’s harmful.

    Not necessary

    • It’s not necessary because we’re free to create as many new genders as we’d like, while preserving the standard ones.

    • This is the transcend and include approach, as far as I can tell. The current approaches I’ve seen are either all transcend (reject the historical categories) or all include (reject the creativity and proof-by-existence of new genders).

    • I believe this will better honor the person who was misassigned a gender at birth, because their life experience is very different from someone who was assigned the gender they identify with. Eg: if I’m a trans-woman, I didn’t grow up with all the social pressures of being a woman, or going through a menstrual cycle, or whatever; I grew up feeling like a woman but getting the social pressures of being a man, going through the hormonal changes associated with male-body-ness. Which is a totally unique experience, that I will find more belonging and support from other people like me, not from trad-females.

    Harmful

    • It’s harmful because the people who want acceptance into the traditional category are never going to get it. Eg: If i’m a trans-woman, I was assigned male at birth, and I probably have some male parts and hormones and stuff, so when I try to identify as a woman and join in those discussions and groups that are for women I’m likely to always feel outside, different, and to a certain group of cis-women, threatening.

    • This further divides society and polarizes certain populations against including the reality of the trans-experience, which then polarizes the trans-supporters, which begets the vicious cycle.

    • Sex differentiation started around 1.2 billion years, so the male-female experience has ancient roots that are in our bodies and impacting us every single second. Denying this altogether is destroying massive chesterotn fences— denies tons of wisdom that is passed down not only culturally over the past 200,000 years, but instinctually for a billion.

    What about bathrooms and sports?

    Instead we can just have single stall bathrooms and locker-rooms. Or trad-male, trad-female, and a third for whoever of whatever gender, which is much larger than the trad lockerrooms and bathrooms. We can have a third category of sports—all gender. We’re creative, we’re growing, we have plenty of people to populate them and who will want to win, why stick with a binary?

    I’m sure I’m missing something, and I apologize to the new-gendered people who I’m sure I’ve insulted or missed somehow. But, leaning in to potentially contentious convo…

    jordanSA•...
    Yeah, I’m with you. Although… I think the man and woman genders will always have the specialness of being the OG genders, with a giant history and biological impact, and we shouldn’t ignore or deconstruct this away, while still honoring and including all the genders as equal...
    sociology
    cultural studies
    gender studies
    biology
    history
    Comments
    0
  • jordan avatar

    Roads as interconnection of all, metaphor for selves. This is kinda silly and obvious in some ways, but the other day I was really struck by a simple fact I’d never considered: All the roads are really one road…

    I live on Bryker Dr, and it dead ends into 34th street on one end and 30th on the other. So I think of this as a singular, discrete street that is 4 blocks long, and a couple car lengths wide. That’s how most people think they’re thinking about it.

    But actually we’re all thinking of it as something much greater than that, we just don’t always realize we are. The street is my access to the rest of the world—and it is concretely (pun intended) connected to every other street in North America.

    So is it really my street, or is it one giant system? My finger is obviously a finger, and obviously doesn’t exist separately from my body. If I were dismembered, it wouldn’t be my finger for very long, would it?

    I think this is a beautiful metaphor for a self. We usually think we’re thinking of ourselves like we do roads, with beginnings and endings. But we’re actually the entire system, wholly interconnected with every other part. Getting from a small street in Austin to a small street in Winnipeg takes a long time, but in some incredibly real and grounded sense, there’s no separation between them.

    ( technically minus a few old roads that maybe don’t have any connections, but c’mon )

    annabeth•...

    It’s feeling similar to how our digestive tract is still our skin. We’re tubes interacting with the world passing through us as well as outside of us.

    philosophy
    biology
    human anatomy
    Comments
    0
  • dara_like_sara avatar

    Attraction is out of our control, Microbe overlords are controlling our actions. So, I watched this documentary on Netflix last night, which reignited my interest in the gut microbiome.

    I’m connecting dots between what we’re learning about how the gut biome impacts mood and actions with the elusive nature of attraction.

    During my Sunday Relateful Flow session, someone said, I’m learning that trying to understand someone gets in the way of just letting myself be attracted to them.

    Research is showing that the gut biome can influence and even potentially create conditions like depression, autism, and obesity.

    More research will show that the sense of attraction to others is also influenced by the biome. We have scant data on this now- one study shows that female mice tended to be more attractive mates when they had more diverse gut flora.

    So, why does this matter? It makes me think about sitting at the dinner table the other night. Some friends were over with their young child, and he was incessantly eating salt. The kid’s dad said oh hm he must need salt, trusting his natural intelligence.

    My hypothesis is that research will show that we’re attracted to people with the gut bacteria we need more for greater diversity, so our microbes drive us to exchange bodily fluids with them.😏

    On the other hand, I guess it’s possible that if you’re overrun with less-than-ideal microbes or less gut biodiversity, then maybe those microbes want to stay in charge, and they’ll lead you to swap fluids with someone whose biome maintains the status quo.

    Here’s what I think everyone should do with this information:
    1. Eat more fiber and fermented foods. Do this for many months.
    2. Once you’ve worked on ensuring you have a diverse microbiome, trust your attraction. If you’re monog, sorry- you need to take up polyamory. Give it a go. For your health. 😜

    https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230120-how-gut-bacteria-are-controlling-your-brain
    jordanSA•...
    I believe fo any given phenomenon (like attraction), there’s a co-arising of psychological, biological/behavioral, cultural, and systemic factors at play. This is the essence of the "quadrants" aspect of the integral model....
    psychology
    cultural studies
    integral theory
    microbiology
    biology
    systemic analysis
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