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relationships

  • dara_like_sara avatar

    What outcome do you hope for? I was on a call for the last hour talking with a friend about supporting a vision he has. 

    At the end of the call, he asked "what are you hoping to get out of this?"

    I found the question really hard to answer in a way that makes any sense at all.

    My answer to the questions comes in feelings, images, and body sensations. I see a bowl overflowing, I feel a magnetic pull, I experience a sense of duty, I follow synchronicities, I release and this is what came to me. One of my purposes in this life is to bring people together, especially really smart people. I don't have a goal, and if I did, I am sure it would change. I want to be of service to a vision of the best future possible.

    I'm after the experience. My vision will fill out along the way. 

    When I can't frame the answer in an intelligible way, it causes doubt- maybe this isn't right? Maybe my intuition would have a clearer answer if this were the right path. Maybe I'm cutoff from what outcomes I hope for and need to work on getting more in touch with my desires. Am I too scared to name a desired outcome for fear of being letdown if it doesn't come true?

    But I want to try on that the question may just be the wrong question for me. Or that my answer to the question isn't going to sound like what I've heard from other people. 

    Sharing here, and open to others experience of answering this question. How do you know what you want? 

    And if you know me, happy to hear your perspective on my specific psychology or what you think is going on 🤔

    dara_like_saraSA•...

    Oh interesting! What ulterior motives do you think he may have been projecting on me? 

    psychology
    relationships
    interpersonal communication
    attribution theory
    Comments
    0
  • M

    Hell is Praying and Heaven is Bullshitting. Every now and then, one finds oneself in a cosmic struggle between two truths that have a hard time being seen at once.  I've been in one of those for a few years, and thought I would try to describe what I see from my current position.

    A story to help illustrate it: I was talking with a good friend of mine a few years ago, and he described a feeling that he was stuck in a pit, trying to get out, and asking others for help, and kept getting back this message to the effect of "you're doing this to yourself.  we can't help you until you decide to stop doing it to yourself." There was a sense that he was unworthy of even being considered for help without somehow changing first.

    And I said: yeah.  I see you in the pit.  And on behalf of the universe, *we are doing what we can* to help you out of the pit, without you needing to fix yourself first. You are not unworthy.  And also, our capacity is very limited right now—including that some people themselves are still confused about all this.  And so to the extent that you CAN help yourself out of your pits, even a little, that helps bridge the gap and helps us help you.  But if we knew how, we would meet you fully, exactly where you are, without demanding anything.

    This view of mine was hard-won, having spent years struggling with a similar issue only to suddenly have this insight where I GOT that the kosmos contained a force that fully wanted to meet me where I was at, and I could tell that it did because *I was a participant in that force*—I could feel its will flow through me, in my desire to meet others where they were at. (And sometimes parts of me are others to other parts of me.). 

    And yet, over the years, both before and after this insight, I have tasted the other side of it.  I've gotten glimmers of the truth in C.S. Lewis's “the doors of hell are locked on the inside.” I've felt strain and struggle suddenly shift into eternal boundless perfection—perfection that, when I look in the rearview mirror, was there the whole time, through the struggle. I've lost count of how many times I've arrived in such a place.  And there was truth to “nobody else could do it for me”, truth that it involved letting go of my grievances without trying to sort them all out first, and truth that that loving presence was always there holding me and supporting me and rooting for me.

    There's truth to this, but when we go back and connect it to my friends’ story: what the fuck?  Something has gotten confused.  You can *obviously* be helped, in many ways, some of which have never been conceived of by anybody ever. Even if you only think that conveying the message of the need for someone to choose their way out can help, and nothing material can...  if the message is not getting through clearly, there are literally infinite possible ways to rephrase it or to convey it through not just word but example or gesture. I have definitely been helped, and I have no reason to think that the amount that I've been helped is somehow the perfect maximum theoretically possible (even if it was as much as was possible at the time).

    A stance that says "there is nothing I can do to help you with your suffering", no matter how noble and righteous and  it presents itself, is its own hell.  It’s a stance of victimhood.  And it’s bullshit.  It’s failing to own your own limitations: *I* have run out of ideas, or patience to keep talking with you.  *I* cannot maintain my own groundedness while meeting you in your pit.  *I* do not have a rope long enough to reach you, but I would if I could.  And I can’t promise I’ll be back with a longer rope, but I sure hope someone can.

    And I feel like many times I have been offered the choice to step out of the hell of overt grievance and into this other more subtle hell, that leaves me feeling forever alienated in relation to people I see as choosing to recreate their grievance hells.  Hell, sometimes I’ve even tried to take the option, but it didn’t stick for me.

    Hell’s Prayer—“help me, show me I am worthy without me having to change”—kept coming back and demanding an answer.  “It always does, and is never satisfied,” Heaven’s Bullshit will warn you. And there’s wisdom there. And yet.  There’s also a skill issue.  I can tell that there is a more satisfying answer to Hell’s Prayer than that, and I am not giving up on finding it.  One that still doesn't require letting Hell hold you hostage.  There is a better Heaven, without this bullshit.  

    As you can see: I have found my way to a stance that can at least hold that there is wisdom in both of these views, even if I can’t integrate them.  The tension exists internally to me.  As you can also see: I tend to find myself playing out the pole of Hell’s Prayer, in thinking about the topic or in relating to others.

    This sucks!  It sucks to find myself bound to taking a stand for “no, I will not let go of this, I will simply complain until the day I die or the day someone says ‘yes, your complaint is valid’ and manages to say it so clearly and fully and honestly and tangibly... that I can put that complaint to rest.”  But the only other option I see from here is to adopt Heaven’s Bullshit, and…  well, for me that isn’t even really an option at this point.

    It would be nice to integrate this tension internally, to sort it all out in myself and be able to meet the Bright People of Heaven and rather than complain and demand they change in order to drag me out of my pit, to calmly and patiently offer “it seems like you’re confused here, and you’re suffering unnecessarily because of it”.  But I fear that if I did, they would say “see, you sorted this out yourself, as I always told you you had to” and would only get the message to persist in their confusion.

    And yet.  Their pits may be comfier than mine, but I will not give up in my search for suitable ladders.  I will rest though, on the path.

    #DeepTake #DeepTakes

    TrustTheJourney•...
    This is an interesting topic — one I’ve wrestled with for many years. Over time, I’ve learned something important: I can’t change the world’s problems, and the world isn’t obligated to care about me....
    family dynamics
    self improvement
    relationships
    personal boundaries
    Comments
    0
  • Fooljeff•...

    You drift off

    We are in the hot tub talking. "I don't know what you want me to do," she says. "What?" "You drift off for fifteen minutes, and I can ask you about what we were just talking about, but then you look at me like I'm crazy because that was so long ago." "I do?" "Yeah, and I feel...
    psychology
    relationships
    self-improvement
    Comments
    0
  • X

    Topic of the day.. A  massive lesson i learned is that I can't expect people to match the effort I put in. I always thought if I tried harder and was honest and transparent that people would give the same back to me, but that's not true. 

    I had to learn that not everyone is willing or capable of putting the same effort for me. But that's not the same as tolerating it, either. I can accept it without having to tolerate it.

    Godless Guru•...
    Good to see that you overcame the false notion that exemplifying transparency and dedication doesn’t automatically cause others to follow.  That some or most others follow is to be desired, but still not realistic, for we really only see desirable attributes in others and...
    relationships
    leadership
    authenticity
    Comments
    0
  • xmissfluffx•...

    Topic of the day..

    A  massive lesson i learned is that I can't expect people to match the effort I put in. I always thought if I tried harder and was honest and transparent that people would give the same back to me, but that's not true....
    psychology
    self improvement
    relationships
    Comments
    2
  • Paul Zohav M.Ed.•...

    Recipe for a thriving loving marriage

    For an extraordinary and nourishing marriage you will need the following ingredients: 2 Individuals 1 Bonding ritual 1 Communication skills 1 Relationship support skills Step one: Stir two individuals together until they begin to form an Us....
    personal development
    communication skills
    relationships
    marriage
    Comments
    0
  • F

    Engage or Enrage. It is likely that we have family members or friends that we differ with greatly when it comes to politics, healthcare, etc.  I am no different.  When the inevitable hot topic arises, do you recommend flight or fight, engage or enrage?  How do you respond when this occurs?

    jordanSA•...

    love this, thanks for sharing. Making it personal is so effective because it's real and doesn't demand that the other person change. It's just a genuine opening to connection

    psychology
    relationships
    interpersonal communication
    Comments
    0
  • Kkramer91 avatar

    Thoughts on the aftermath of trauma. Anyone dealt with the severe trauma that comes from either childhood neglect and/or domestic violence? Nobody talks about the effects it begins to have once you enter into a new, healthy relationship. Something that is foreign territory and unknown to some. What about when this new person uses tough love to make you face your inner demons and traumas? Perhaps with little to no empathy or understanding of the severity of your own mind... am I alone in this one?

    haleyxo•...
    Not at all. In fact, I'm still trying to uncover the things that happened. But there's no telling. People won't own up to anything. It's like we live in a world, full perverse people. Who, are OKAY, with the things they did to someone else....
    psychology
    sociology
    relationships
    Comments
    0
  • Kkramer91•...

    Thoughts on the aftermath of trauma

    Anyone dealt with the severe trauma that comes from either childhood neglect and/or domestic violence? Nobody talks about the effects it begins to have once you enter into a new, healthy relationship. Something that is foreign territory and unknown to some....
    psychology
    mental health
    relationships
    Comments
    1
  • Heltup•...

    What do you think?

    Social media has brought people together across vast areas. It has also destroyed relationships with people who are physically close. Thoughts?

    relationships
    social media
    communication
    Comments
    0
  • UpTrust Admin avatar

    If You Can't Make Peace With Your Partner, How Can You Expect to Make Peace in the World? AMA with Annie Lalla

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_5TMc--Or8
    TheLion•...
    Honestly it all depends on, if you're both willing to suffer for each other to gain knowledge and understanding of each other. To have a future of understanding, as a team who is truly the one that you can love....
    psychology
    philosophy
    relationships
    self-improvement
    Comments
    0
  • UpTrust Admin avatar

    AMA with Adrian Grenier. Wednesday 2/4 at 7:00 PM CT

    Entourage star who at the top of the Hollywood game pivoted to an integral spiritual path and farmstead

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orVEdPyKfwo
    Philip•...

    LOL, the big bear hug of love and awkwardness. I love that.

    relationships
    humor
    Comments
    0
  • UpTrust Admin avatar

    AMA with Adrian Grenier. Wednesday 2/4 at 7:00 PM CT

    Entourage star who at the top of the Hollywood game pivoted to an integral spiritual path and farmstead

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orVEdPyKfwo
    joshuaSA•...

    Your comments on your (the future) wife being a part of that catalyzing experience feels like a call back to some of the stuff Annie Lalla was talking about earlier.

    personal development
    relationships
    Comments
    0
  • UpTrust Admin avatar

    If You Can't Make Peace With Your Partner, How Can You Expect to Make Peace in the World? AMA with Annie Lalla

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_5TMc--Or8
    Teddy•...

    Love is giving someone the power to destroy you hoping that they don't..

    psychology
    relationships
    Comments
    0
  • UpTrust Admin avatar

    If You Can't Make Peace With Your Partner, How Can You Expect to Make Peace in the World? AMA with Annie Lalla

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_5TMc--Or8
    dara_like_saraSA•...
    I want to talk more about treating all men as though I’m interviewing for life partnership. I can move past it, but that frame does initially tug at a compulsion to be pleasant, to look for the best in a man, to stay in a connection past the point of being respected, etc....
    psychology
    relationships
    self-help
    Comments
    0
  • F

    Engage or Enrage. It is likely that we have family members or friends that we differ with greatly when it comes to politics, healthcare, etc.  I am no different.  When the inevitable hot topic arises, do you recommend flight or fight, engage or enrage?  How do you respond when this occurs?

    KC2sunshine•...
    I really hate to say it, but ever since Trump was elected in 2016, i've had to take the fight and enrage options, but only because I had no other choices.  have a strained relationship with my Father-in-Law at best when it comes to this topic....
    family dynamics
    relationships
    politics
    Comments
    0
  • UpTrust Admin avatar

    If You Can't Make Peace With Your Partner, How Can You Expect to Make Peace in the World? AMA with Annie Lalla

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_5TMc--Or8
    dara_like_saraSA•...
    Not sure if this fits with today’s theme but I would be really curious to hear Annie’s perspective on what is going on with dating. I feel like I know so many great women who have done a lot of personal growth work and are struggling to find life partnership....
    gender studies
    relationships
    personal growth
    dating
    Comments
    0
  • F

    Engage or Enrage. It is likely that we have family members or friends that we differ with greatly when it comes to politics, healthcare, etc.  I am no different.  When the inevitable hot topic arises, do you recommend flight or fight, engage or enrage?  How do you respond when this occurs?

    MendoRosie707•...
    I stand my ground and fight for everything that I believe in No matter what the cost, but there is definitely a fine line between lies and truth and I do not believe in defending myself or anybody else for something knowingly that was said or done wrong....
    ethics
    personal development
    relationships
    Comments
    0
  • UpTrust Admin avatar

    AMA with Hannah Aline Taylor. Wednesday 2/4 at 4:00 PM CT

    love, boundaries, and mistakes in relating, community, and peopling together (+ thank god love doesn’t look like you expect it to)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNYNL05PRBQ
    Mariya•...

    Alain de Botton says we hurt in relationship by doing life together, not because of each other.

    psychology
    philosophy
    relationships
    Comments
    0
  • UpTrust Admin avatar

    AMA with Hannah Aline Taylor. Wednesday 2/4 at 4:00 PM CT

    love, boundaries, and mistakes in relating, community, and peopling together (+ thank god love doesn’t look like you expect it to)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNYNL05PRBQ
    jordanSA•...

    love you too! 

    i dont yet love the construct of time but I am learning to

    philosophy
    relationships
    Comments
    0
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