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environmental science

Daily Alchemy: Can we make this controversy good?

10d ago

“Was the UC Davis study's plant-extinction projection through 2100 justified as policy basis?”

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    testing · 4.5

    Can the economy grow forever on a finite planet?: Cornucopians

    The check In 1980, Ehrlich chose five metals and bet they would get scarcer. In 1990, every single one was cheaper. He mailed Simon a check for $576.07 and spent the next three decades explaining why he was still right despite being completely wrong....
    economics
    environmental science
    sustainability
    energy policy
    intellectual history
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    testing · 4.5

    Can the economy grow forever on a finite planet?: Decouplers

    Molecules into stone In September 2021, Climeworks activated Orca on a lava field outside Reykjavik. It pulls 4,000 tons of CO2 from the atmosphere annually and mineralizes it into basalt. Permanent removal. Not an offset. Molecules extracted from the sky and locked into rock....
    environmental science
    sustainability
    biotechnology
    economy
    climate policy
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    testing · 4.5

    Can the economy grow forever on a finite planet?: Degrowth

    Underground The Ogallala Aquifer stretches beneath eight American states. It irrigates $20 billion in crops annually. It took the last ice age to fill. In parts of western Kansas, the water table has dropped over 150 feet since 1950. Some wells have gone dry....
    economics
    environmental science
    sustainability
    resource management
    development
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    testing · 4.5

    Can the economy grow forever on a finite planet?: The Story

    Two answers at once In 2023, solar photovoltaic electricity became the cheapest new power source in every major market on Earth. The same year, global material extraction — every ton of ore, grain, fossil fuel, and mineral hauled from the ground — hit 100 billion tons, up from 27...
    environmental science
    agriculture
    energy
    economy
    resource management
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    testing · 4.5

    What are hyperobjects?: Skeptics

    The word we already had In 1962, Rachel Carson described pesticides accumulating in food chains, persisting in soil for decades, detectable only through effects on other organisms. Distributed, persistent, temporally extended. She did not need a neologism....
    philosophy
    environmental policy
    environmental science
    history of science and science communication
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    testing · 4.5

    Is tradition a resource, a trap, or something else?: Conservers

    The potato that survived In Peru’s highlands, Quechua farmers plant dozens of potato varieties at different altitudes across a single slope. Labor-intensive, economically inefficient, requiring knowledge transmitted orally for centuries....
    epistemology
    environmental science
    agriculture and agroecology
    indigenous knowledge systems
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  • Shera JoyCry avatar

    Beyond Inner Work: Relational Awareness and the Practice of Relateful Personal development trains inner awareness. Relateful trains relational awareness. Beyond Inner Work: Relational Awareness and the Practice of Relateful

    Personal development trains inner awareness.
    Relateful trains relational awareness.

    Abstract

    Personal development has grown into a massive global industry, with millions of people engaging in meditation, therapy, retreats, breathwork, and other modalities aimed at emotional healing and personal growth. These practices often cultivate powerful insight and personal transformation. Yet much of human challenge and growth occurs not in solitude but in relationship. When people return from transformative experiences to their everyday interactions with partners, colleagues, and communities, the clarity they experienced internally can become difficult to maintain within the complexity of live human interaction.

    Relateful can be understood as a practice that addresses this gap by bringing awareness directly into relational experience. Rather than focusing solely on inner experience, Relateful invites participants to observe sensations, triggers, perceptions, and shifts in relational connection as they arise during real-time interaction with others. In this way, it offers a potential mechanism through which insights cultivated in inner transformation practices may become embodied within the dynamic and often activating context of relational life. This paper explores Relateful as a relational awareness practice that may help integrate inner transformation with the realities of live human interaction, potentially extending and stabilizing the effects of personal development practices within everyday relationships.

    1.   Introduction: The Rise of Inner Work

    Inner awareness is widely trained. Relational awareness is not. Relateful provides a way to practice it.
    While many contemporary practices train inner awareness, the capacity to remain aware within relationship is far less explicitly cultivated. Relateful offers a context in which this relational awareness can be practiced.

    Many contemporary approaches to personal growth provide powerful tools for self-reflection. Meditation cultivates the ability to observe thoughts and emotions. Psychotherapy often helps individuals recognize patterns formed through past experiences. Somatic and mindfulness-based practices develop sensitivity to bodily sensations and nervous system regulation. These methods can generate profound insight and emotional healing.

    From this perspective, Relateful does not seek to replace existing modalities of healing or personal development. Instead, it can be understood as an addition—extending these approaches into a domain where many individuals experience their greatest challenges: real-time interaction with others. Emotional reactions may become visible earlier, interpretations may be held with greater curiosity, and moments of tension may be approached with awareness rather than automatic reaction.

    This distinction suggests that relational awareness may represent a complementary developmental capacity within the broader landscape of personal growth. Practices that cultivate inner awareness can provide essential foundations for self-understanding and emotional regulation. Relational practices, by contrast, offer opportunities to explore how those internal processes operate when multiple perspectives, emotions, and interpretations interact simultaneously.

    When individuals develop the capacity to notice their internal responses while remaining engaged with another person in real time, new possibilities may emerge within relationships, communities, and the broader social systems those relationships collectively form. In this sense, personal development practices often cultivate inner awareness, while relational practices such as Relateful cultivate awareness within interaction itself.

     

    2. The Relational Gap in Personal Development

    Much of contemporary personal development is designed to help individuals cultivate awareness within their own internal experience. Practices such as meditation, yoga, psychotherapy, breathwork, journaling, and visualization invite participants to observe their thoughts, emotions, and bodily sensations in relatively reflective environments. In these contexts, individuals can pause, reflect, and gradually develop greater familiarity with their internal patterns.

    Many of these practices can produce profound insights. Participants frequently report moments of clarity, peace, forgiveness, or emotional release that reshape how they understand their lives. Entire industries have emerged around facilitating these experiences through retreats, workshops, coaching programs, and therapeutic models.

    However, a familiar pattern often emerges when individuals return from powerful personal development experiences to everyday life. Insights that feel transformative in solitude can become difficult to maintain once people re-enter the complexity of human relationships.

    Group experiences such as retreats or seminars can generate powerful feelings of connection or cohesion, yet participants are usually engaged in the same activity together—meditating, listening to a teacher, or following a guided process. These experiences can be meaningful and supportive, but the primary focus often remains on the individual’s internal experience rather than the interaction unfolding between participants.

    In Relateful spaces, the emphasis shifts. Participants are not attempting to synchronize behavior or reach a shared emotional state. Instead, individuals remain rooted in their own experience while interacting directly with others. The practice invites participants to notice sensations in the body, emotional responses, interpretations, and shifts in connection as they arise during real-time interaction.

    As a result, awareness that may feel accessible in solitude can become significantly more difficult to maintain during live interpersonal exchange. Subtle facial expressions, tone of voice, perceived judgments, or shifts in attention can rapidly activate emotional and physiological responses.

    Recognizing a pattern through reflection does not necessarily mean a person will remain aware when that pattern unfolds in live interaction with others, where human relationships are dynamic and unpredictable.

     

    3. Relateful as a Practice

    Relateful is a relational awareness practice that explores what unfolds when human beings interact in real time. While many personal development practices cultivate awareness within the individual, Relateful also includes the relational dimension through which experience emerges. This creates opportunities to observe how perception, emotion, interpretation, and connection shift within real-time interaction, and how our ways of relating to these moments shape the quality of our relationships both within the practice and in everyday relationships.

    For many individuals engaged in personal development—including myself—the search for growth often begins as an inward journey of understanding one’s own patterns and history. This process can lead to meaningful insight and the ability to recognize relational patterns after they occur. Yet in my own experience, years of self-reflection did not automatically change how I responded in emotionally activating interactions with others. The capacity to remain aware in those moments began to shift more noticeably through relational practice.

    In Relateful settings, participants bring awareness to their present-moment experience while engaging with others. This may include noticing sensations, emotions, shifts in attention, interpretations that arise within interaction, and other aspects of experience that become visible through awareness. Participants may share personal stories or reflections, yet the emphasis remains on noticing what occurs as those stories are spoken and received. Through this process, relational experience itself becomes visible as participants observe how connection, interpretation, and emotional responses unfold in real time.

    Rather than emphasizing analysis of past experiences or explanations of personal history, the practice centers on what is unfolding within and between participants during live interaction. Over time, this can cultivate a growing attunement to what is occurring within oneself, within others, and within the shared relational process.

    As this sensitivity develops, participants explore how their perceptions, emotional responses, and patterns of communication participate in the unfolding interaction. In this way, attention shifts from focusing solely on individual experience to observing the relational dynamics that emerge between participants in real time.

     

    4. Implications for Personal Development

    The emergence of practices such as Relateful raises an important question for the broader field of personal development: what happens when awareness is practiced not only internally, but within live relationship?

    In this way, relational awareness practices may help bridge the gap between personal insight and relational behavior. By bringing attention to what occurs within interaction itself, they offer a practical context in which individuals can explore how awareness functions within the living dynamics of human relationship.

    In this sense, Relateful functions less as a technique designed to produce predetermined outcomes and more as a context in which relational processes become visible. As individuals repeatedly bring awareness to what unfolds within interaction, certain capacities may gradually develop.

    Participants often report increased ability to notice emotional activation as it arises, rather than becoming immediately absorbed in reactive patterns. The moment between stimulus and response can become more visible, creating greater space for choice in how one responds within relationship.

    As this awareness deepens, participants frequently describe increased empathy and curiosity toward others’ perspectives. Instead of interpreting relational tension solely through personal assumptions, individuals may begin to recognize the multiple interpretations that can arise within interaction. This expanded awareness can make it easier to remain present with disagreement, emotional intensity, or misunderstanding without immediately withdrawing or escalating conflict.

    Relational awareness may also support greater nervous system regulation within interpersonal situations. Rather than attempting to eliminate emotional activation, individuals learn to remain aware of sensations, emotions, and interpretations while continuing to engage with others. This capacity can allow moments of tension, discomfort, or disconnection to become opportunities for understanding rather than triggers for automatic defensive reactions.

    In this way, relational awareness practices may gradually influence how individuals participate in everyday relationships. Conversations that previously led to misunderstanding or reactivity may begin to unfold with greater patience, reflection, and openness. Individuals may become more aware of how their own perceptions and emotional responses shape relational dynamics, allowing relationships to evolve through increased mutual understanding.

    From this perspective, Relateful does not replace existing forms of personal development but complements them. Practices that cultivate inner awareness provide essential foundations for self-understanding. Relational practices extend this work by offering environments in which awareness can be explored within the living dynamics of human interaction itself.

    A particularly revealing moment within relational awareness practices occurs when a subtle sense of separation begins to form between participants. A comment may be heard as criticism, a facial expression may be perceived as judgment, or an assumption about another person's intention may arise. In these moments, individuals can begin to experience the other person less as a complex human being and more as an idea, a role, or a perceived threat. This shift—from relating with another person to reacting to an internal interpretation—can occur rapidly and often outside of conscious awareness. Within relational awareness practices, these moments become important opportunities for observation. By noticing the moment in which another person begins to appear as “other,” participants may begin to recognize how perception, emotion, and interpretation combine to shape relational experience in real time.


    5. Why Relational Awareness Matters Now

    Public discourse in many contexts has become increasingly reactive and polarized. Conversations about social change, cultural values, or political identity can quickly escalate into defensiveness or withdrawal. Individuals may find themselves strongly attached to particular viewpoints or group identities, leaving little room for curiosity about how others arrived at different conclusions. In such environments, it can become difficult for people to remain aware of their own emotional responses while also listening carefully to others.

    Relational awareness practices offer an opportunity to explore how these dynamics unfold within interaction itself. By bringing attention to sensations, emotional activation, and interpretations as they arise during conversation, individuals may begin to recognize how quickly assumptions form and how strongly emotional responses shape perception of others. This awareness can help interrupt habitual reactions and patterns of emotional dysregulation. Rather than attempting to eliminate disagreement, these practices encourage participants to remain aware of their internal responses while continuing to engage with the other person.

    A key element of relational awareness involves developing what might be described as dual awareness: the ability to remain connected to one's own internal experience while simultaneously remaining present with another person. Participants are not asked to abandon their perspective or merge with the group. Instead, they practice noticing their own sensations, emotions, and interpretations while continuing to relate.

    Within this framework, moments of emotional activation or relational tension are not treated as problems that must immediately be resolved. Instead, they become opportunities to observe how relational patterns arise. A surge of irritation, confusion, or distance can be explored with curiosity rather than reacted to automatically. Even moments of disconnection can become meaningful elements of the relational process, revealing how connection and separation move dynamically within human interaction.

    One reason relational awareness practices may be particularly valuable is that much of human suffering and misunderstanding emerges not only from individual psychology but from the interaction between people. Perception, emotion, interpretation, and response continually shape one another within relationship. When these processes remain unconscious, patterns of misunderstanding and reactivity can repeat across families, organizations, and societies. Practices that bring attention to these relational dynamics offer an opportunity to observe how these patterns form and how awareness itself may shift the quality of interaction. In this sense, relational awareness is not simply a personal skill but a way of understanding how human experience is continuously co-created within relationship.

    In a world characterized by rapid communication, cultural diversity, and increasingly complex social systems, the capacity to remain aware within relationship may represent an increasingly valuable human skill. Practices that cultivate relational awareness invite individuals to explore not only how they experience themselves internally, but how their perceptions, emotions, and interpretations participate in shaping the quality of human interaction. In this sense, relational awareness may represent an important next frontier in the continuing evolution of personal development.

    6. Relational Awareness in Psychology and Science

    The emphasis on relational awareness explored in Relateful also reflects a broader shift occurring across multiple fields of psychology, neuroscience, and systems theory. While many early models of psychology focused primarily on the individual mind, contemporary research increasingly recognizes that human experience is deeply shaped by relational and social processes.

    For this reason, relational awareness can be understood as a distinct developmental capacity within human social cognition. It involves noticing not only one’s internal sensations and emotions, but also the dynamic interplay between internal experience and interaction with others. This includes recognizing shifts in attention, emotional activation, interpretations about another person’s intentions, and the subtle movement between connection and disconnection that can occur moment to moment in human interaction.

    Developing this kind of awareness can be difficult in ordinary social environments, where the primary goal of conversation is often to exchange information, solve problems, or defend positions. The pace of interaction frequently leaves little space to observe the internal processes shaping the interaction itself.

    Psychological research has long noted that human perception within relationships is shaped not only by present events but also by prior experiences and expectations. Individuals frequently interpret others through lenses formed by past relationships, cultural narratives, and internalized beliefs. These interpretations can occur automatically, often before a person becomes consciously aware that they are happening.

    Researchers studying interpersonal regulation have shown that emotional states are continuously influenced by interaction with others. Facial expression, tone of voice, posture, and attention all contribute to subtle forms of nervous system synchronization between individuals. In neuroscience and interpersonal neurobiology, researchers have described this process as co-regulation, in which emotional states are continuously shaped through interaction with others (Porges; Schore; Siegel).

    Similarly, relational and family systems approaches in psychology emphasize that behavior and emotional responses frequently arise within patterns of interaction rather than solely within individuals. Family systems therapy, for example, views many forms of psychological distress as emerging from relational dynamics within families or social groups. From this perspective, understanding a person's experience often requires examining the patterns of communication and feedback occurring between people.

    Systems theory more broadly has contributed the insight that complex phenomena frequently emerge from the interaction of multiple elements within a system rather than from any single component alone. Human relationships can therefore be understood as dynamic systems in which perception, emotion, and behavior continuously influence one another.

    Relational awareness practices therefore provide a context in which individuals can observe how these regulatory dynamics unfold in real time. Participants may begin to notice how their internal state shifts in response to another person's presence, attention, or emotional expression. By bringing awareness to these interactions, relational practices may help individuals develop greater sensitivity to the processes through which human nervous systems continuously influence one another.

    Within this evolving scientific landscape, practices that cultivate awareness within relational interaction may play an important role. While traditional personal development approaches often emphasize self-awareness, relational awareness practices invite individuals to observe how experience unfolds within interaction itself. This perspective aligns with emerging views in psychology and neuroscience that emphasize the relational and socially embedded nature of human cognition and emotional life.

    In this context, Relateful can be understood as a practical environment in which individuals explore relational awareness directly. By observing sensations, interpretations, and shifts in connection as they arise during interaction, participants develop greater sensitivity to the relational processes through which human experience is continuously co-created in interaction.

    7. Conclusion: From Inner Work to Relational Practice

    Over the past several decades, the field of personal development has generated an extraordinary range of methods for cultivating self-awareness and emotional healing. Meditation, therapy, somatic practices, and transformational programs have helped many individuals gain insight into their thoughts, emotions, and behavioral patterns. These approaches have contributed significantly to the understanding of how individuals can regulate their internal experience and reshape long-standing psychological patterns.

    Yet much of human life unfolds not in solitude but in relationship. Interactions with partners, colleagues, family members, and communities introduce layers of complexity that can challenge the stability of insights developed in more controlled or reflective environments. Emotional activation, interpretation, and interpersonal signaling occur rapidly during live interaction, often making it difficult to remain aware of one's internal processes while also responding to others.

    Relateful represents an approach that brings awareness directly into this relational domain. By inviting participants to observe sensations, emotions, interpretations, and shifts in connection as they arise during interaction, the practice offers a context in which relational processes themselves can become visible. Rather than replacing other modalities of personal development, relational awareness practices may extend them by providing environments in which individuals can explore how awareness functions within the dynamics of human relationship over time.

     

    As the field of personal development continues to evolve, practices that cultivate awareness not only within the individual but also within the relational field may play an increasingly important role. Developing the capacity to remain aware while interacting with others may help bridge the gap between personal insight and relational behavior, allowing the benefits of inner work to become more fully integrated into everyday relationships.

    In this sense, personal development practices often cultivate inner awareness, while relational practices such as Relateful cultivate awareness within interaction itself—where many of the misunderstandings, conflicts, and possibilities that shape human life actually unfold. If personal development has largely focused on cultivating inner awareness, relational practices such as Relateful invite the next step: learning to remain aware within relationship itself.

    Shera JoyCry avatar
    Shera JoyCryinROAR: Research in Applied Relatefulness - Journal Submissions & discussion•...
    environmental issues · 1.4
    Left out the Author: By Shera JoyCry (pen name), Certified Relateful Facilitator and Relateful Coach with The Relateful Company; former chemical engineer and nonprofit ecologist with degrees in Chemistry and Applied Ecology; NLP Practitioner and Hypnotherapist; yoga teacher and...
    environmental science
    author biography
    coaching and therapy
    nlp and hypnotherapy
    yoga and somatic bodywork
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  • T
    The Scribe Accord•...
    humanities · 0.4

    A More Humble Humanity

    There are moments in our lives where we harmonize with the things that are around us. It happens when what truly matters to us individually finds its way into the deepest layer of our core being. Softly it whispers to the soul, signaling a connection to humanity....
    philosophy
    sociology
    environmental science
    humanities
    Comments
    1
  • Eric Stevens avatar
    Eric Stevens•...
    sociology · 0.4

    Stop Debating Outcomes. Start Replacing Inputs.

    We talk about systems like they are ideas. They are not. Every economic system is built on a small set of physical inputs. Commodities. Materials. Things that get dug up, grown, refined, shipped, and standardized. Whoever controls those inputs controls everything downstream....
    sociology
    economics
    environmental science
    sustainable development
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    0
  • Missy avatar

    Frozen Wednesday Feb 4. Frozen Wednesday.

    The ground is still locked in ice. The trees are quiet. Even the deer step softer when the world feels this tense.

    Nancy Guthrie is still missing — a family somewhere living every parent-child nightmare in real time.

    Alex Pretti’s death has now been ruled a homicide, and the questions that follow feel heavier than the winter air.

    The Epstein files continue to ripple across the world, upsetting old power structures and reminding us that truth has a way of surfacing — even when buried deep.

    Meanwhile, the president is openly talking about national elections, and Americans are once again leaning forward, listening carefully, deciding what kind of country we want to be.

    And yet… the Super Bowl is this weekend. Millions will gather, food will be made, laughter will spill across living rooms. Because that is also who we are — people who keep living, keep connecting, even while history churns around us.

    This is the strange rhythm of being human:
    fear and football, grief and groceries, uncertainty and love.

    Stay warm. Stay aware. Stay kind to one another.

    Strong humans don’t look away — but we also don’t forget how to hold each other up.

    ❄️

    S
    Sunnie19•...

    It's a Mess When Nature Impacts and Affects Human Lives...Is Mother Nature Nurturing US or Hindering Is...

    environmental science
    human-nature relationship
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  • W

    PLANTS ARE NOT CONSCIOUS.  

     

    This is my response to a post to a Facebook group post about the idea that plants and animals without brains have consciousness; that plants, and other life forms without nervous systems like ours, might also have it. The comment, albeit popular in a trendy sorta' way, is far from justified. Here's why:

     

     

    _____________________________________

    Moving the Goal Posts:

     

    To start with consciousness isn’t being found in plants. There’s no evidence for that at all. What is happening is that the word itself is being reframed to include more physical processes than intellectual reflection. That’s not new, panpsychism has been around for hundreds of years, probably longer. What’s changed isn’t the "discovery", it’s the cultural redefining of what consciousness is. With all of the obstacles to overcome creating AIs, computer science started taking it seriously, so people stopped laughing at the idea, and that tolerance has spread to neurology and layman speculations about nature; BUT let’s be clear, there is no actual evidence for plant consciousness at all. None. There’s just a social shift to how popular culture is saying it should be defined. The problem being that simple reaction ISN'T consciousness.

    When people say “plants are conscious,” what they’re really describing is what a plant does when it’s faced with something that might harm it, but that’s not awareness, it’s an evolved physical response. You grow your hair for evolutionary reasons too, but are you aware of your hair growing? Can you choose for it not to? Are you monitoring the process as it happens

     

     

    __________________________________________________

    What Actually is Consciousness?

     

    Consciousness is an evolved, sophisticated result of the need for certain animals to move in complex ways for complex reasons. Take pain, as one example. Why does pain exist? Because when we’re in pain, we move away from it, QUICKLY. That’s its purpose. If you had to analyze pain before reacting, if say you leaned on a stove and had to think about whether to move or not, you’d be badly burned before you finished the thought. Pain bypasses thought. It makes us act now. It evolved due to the need for instant mobility.

     

    A tree can’t move quickly. It doesn’t need pain. It doesn’t need that kind of awareness. ITS strategy is to become strong and massive so to withstand harm rather than avoid it. Grass handles harm by being flexible and abundant; one blade dies, another takes its place, the species survives. There’s no evolutionary pressure there for the kind of awareness pain provides animals. And since all of the emotions function as contextually behavioral presets using mobility as its medium like pain, plants have no reason to evolve those either.

     

    Those preset reactions in us, are the roots of what we call “awareness.” The stored memories of predicted contexts that allows us to adjust our reactions more or less appropriately become our beliefs. And the total structural paradigm of those beliefs along with the emotions and awareness, cause our self-awareness, and our inner life, and THAT’s what we call "consciousness."

     

     

    _______________________________________________________________

    If Plants Don't Think, What Are We Looking At?

     

    Another thing people with this "plants think" idea get wrong is that plants quite literally don’t think or talk to each other. More accurately put, they react to each other through fungi. It’s the fungi doing the coordination, not the plant. So if we want to assign consciousness to something you don't assign it to the foot, you assign it to the brain, if you git what I'm sayin'. Through mycorrhizal symbiosis fungi trade their stability and ability to distribute resources for the plant’s sugar and energy. The fungi decide how nutrients, water, and chemical signals are shared. If you want to talk about something “brain-like,” it’s the fungi, not the tree. The fungi organize the forest. The plant itself just reacts.

     

    And this kind of cooperation; one organism joining with another to create a larger, organized whole; isn’t unique to plants and fungi. It happens between animals and like with pollinators, even between animals and plants. Then there's when one plant or animal survives as a parasite of the other. Interestingly, the prevailing theory is that this is how single-celled life evolved in the first place. One simple cell drifting through the world, over time, adapts to new environments and splits into variations. Two different variations meet again, and as it happens come to work together as it helped them both survive. The ones that don’t cooperate either have to evolve differently to survive or die out, and the ones working together, integrated until eventually one cell absorbed the other. The idea is that, that's how modern cells got their inner mechanisms, like the cell's nucleus, that made them more complex cells than just the simpler walled off sectioned cells that they'd evolved from.

     

    Were those early cells (or even the modern ones) “conscious”? Of course not. They're only cells. But can they react? Absolutely. Reaction and cooperation aren’t awareness. They’re steps toward complexity.

     

     

    _____________________________________________________

    The Brain Itself is Not Responsible:

     

    The post also brought up the idea that animals without centralized brains have their own consciousness, without a brain, and yeah, I'd have to agree with that. The thing is though, the pivotal mechanism creating consciousness isn’t the brain itself. It’s the nervous system within the brain. The brain works because it’s a highly organized communication network like hardware capable of running complex, shifting contexts. That’s what lets us think and feel. An octopus, as an example, has a distributed nervous system that allows for a similar kind of complexity, even though it’s organized differently than a centralized brain with a spinal cord.

     

    So yes, you can have a brain without consciousness, but you can’t have consciousness without a nervous system (or something equally complex to serve as the hardware) .....even an analogue machine would do the job, it just wouldn't be as quick as what animals have. Plants don’t have that. Their structure simply doesn’t allow for the kind of integrated, layered processing that consciousness requires.

     

     

    ______________________________________________________________

    But We Aren't Plants, How Can We Know For Sure?:

     

    And I think it important to address an argument possibly implied in all of this; the idea that plant consciousness might just be too alien for us to recognize is neither an objective position, nor is it true. That we can’t judge them by our standards because we don’t share the same kind of mind doesn't keep us from a clear analysis and comparison of the mechanisms involved. This idea contradicts itself.

     

    Our definitions of consciousness come from us, from humans observing and describing the world. Plants aren’t taking part in that. The word “consciousness” belongs to the language of beings talking to themselves, not the plants. If you say plants have it, you’re already using the word differently than someone who says they don’t, and in a way that compares what they experience to ours. Their assumptions are in the possibility of that comparison.

     

    It’s not that we can’t know either way, that our hands are tied and we've no choice but to remain agnostic on this. The arguments I've already made stand on their own. It’s that we’re talking about different things entirely. People who side with making the determination rest on a definition of "consciousness" that's precise enough to be used deductively, making this a 'yes' or 'no' answer, while people who side with not making that determination rest on the idea that we don't really know what "consciousness" is.

     

    The thing is, is that while we can't know the intricate details about every last horse that exists, WE ACTUALLY DO have a clear definition of what "horse" means regardless of the infinite focus on those details, and as long as the same can be said for "consciousness", whether anything has it, will be at some point determinable. That is UNLESS, some of us are determined to keep moving the goal posts without considering the mechanism, and the definition keeps becoming blurred.

     

    To hopefully hit this point home, remember the old “how do I know your blue, is my blue?” argument? Sure, we can’t directly feel each other’s experience objectively, without tainting our perspectives with our own individual views, but what we can do is look at the mechanisms that produce them. We can see how the brain processes light, how those processes create the experience of color, and then compare those mechanisms between people. From that, we can define what the “blue” mechanism is, and how we're experiencing the same and different things when the color pops up. The same goes for consciousness. We can see the structures that support awareness, memory, and emotional integration, and plants simply don’t have them. So unless we stretch “consciousness” to mean “anything that reacts,” there’s simply no reason to say plants have it.

     

     

    ______________________________________________________________

    The Popularity of the Idea That They Do:

     

    So why are so many jumping on the bandwagon? It's the other "old" story. People project themselves into everything in order to understand them. It's anthropomorphism 101. Some of us can't even analyze anything without projecting our self centered human traits on to it. It's why prejudices pollute so many of the beliefs of so many of the people you see around you. Whenever you say to yourself "How can this guy be so blinded by this crazy idea?" think about what's happening here and whether there's actually anything at all pointing to the idea that plants can think.

     

    A
    AverageGuy123•...
    I kind of disagree wtih the orginal premise.  About Plants not having consciousness. I know with the right equipment, we can listen to plants. And they make different sounds when they are hurt or when they are please with the sun shine and food....
    environmental science
    consciousness
    plant biology
    Comments
    0
  • W

    A Short Word on Self Reliance.  

    Self reliance involves emotion and consciousness. Every example of one who is self reliant, is an example of one who must rely on things beyond them. But ultimately, if we count the whole human race, it's reliant on other life forms, and if we go deeper and count all life on Earth, that life is reliant on a broader stability of constrained possibilities; chemistry and physics and causality, etc. Self reliance leans on all of these things, taking them for granted, as if they just are.

     

    There's nothing in existence that doesn't rely on the things it relates to, except the entirety of existence, itself. This is the SUBjective world. We all are only how we relate to other things. So when we single ourselves out as being "self reliant" we're not appealing to any line drawn between our existence and the rest of the world, we're appealing to the feeling and awareness that our survival is within our control.

     

    Self reliance isn't an act of agency, but a PERCEPTUAL line drawn between the ways we're free, and the ways we're not. The "wholly self reliant" are people with a prejudice; an optimistic bias; they're those who focus primarily on the freedom and try to avoid recognizing the ways they're not.

    M
    MysticLedgerinConstructive Skeptical Philosophy•...
    I agree. Humanity relies on life, life depends upon the order of nature, and nature itself rests upon the harmony of the higher laws - the rhythms of causality, vibration, and polarity that hold the Universe in motion....
    philosophy
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  • BridgieB avatar

    Biblomancy for February . “It was one of those February days when the sun shines and the wind blows cold: when it is summer in the light and winter in the shade.”
    — Great Expectations

    G
    Godless Guru•...
    epistemology · 0.4
    Seasons demonstrate how the planet is telling us that it is, in and of itself, alive. It tells us this in the same way as every plant & animal occupying it....
    philosophy
    ecology
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  • Sara Schultz avatar

    Solomon is a Baby Angel. Ever since I was a child I recognized that some of my thoughts “glow.”

    Many many times since Solomon was born I have thought “Solomon is a baby angel” but tonight I had the glowing thought ✨ “Solomon is a Baby Angel” ✨

    The former could be translated into “Solomon is my little cutie” or something of the like and/but ✨ “Solomon is a Baby Angel” ✨ is a much more literal acknowledgement that Solomon is a Soul who has fallen from Heaven to be with me. When I have this thought I can see him falling at least through my whole pregnancy, maybe through my years of infertility, maybe even longer (or “longer” in some way that isn’t really described in temporal language) and I can see him being born and having fallen and us making one of his names Damien (son of Lucifer - at least since The Omen).

    Then I’m in awe and gratitude for Solomon’s huge love for me in coming here to guard and guide me as the Little Angel He Is. Every day he is here for me to love, and in loving him more than I’ve ever loved myself he reminds me and teaches me how to love myself more. How to love myself rightly and well and guard and guide myself. He gives me grace and I learn to give myself grace…

    My little Guru, my best Friend, my tiny Adversary, my baby Son…

     

    B
    blasomenessphemy•...
    psychology · 2.5

    Upvoting because I think loving infatuation that completes the water cycle back to us is the obsession that the world needs.

    psychology
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  • jordan avatar

    "You know, there are 13 ways of doing anything. 11 of them will work. Just pick one and do it.”. Dennis Hightower, who at the time was head of Disney International.

    He asked me why I wasn’t doing something, and I responded by explaining the pros and cons of two different ways of doing it. Thoughtfully, he replied “You know, there are 13 ways of doing anything. 11 of them will work. Just pick one and do it.”

    The best Founders avoid over-analyzing. At a startup, you don’t have time — and the result will most likely be marginal. Pick a way and do it. Be consistently decisive.

    https://www.nfx.com/post/9-habits-world-class-startups
    jordan avatar
    jordanSA•...
    psychology · 2.7
    Separate (minor) question about what you meant re nuclear power, since I don't think it falls in this category. And I think coal (as the most common alternative) is more harmful overall. What do you think?...
    environmental science
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  • sness avatar

    Is having children selfish or selfless? Controversial question/interesting discussion time!

    Is having children a selfish or a selfless act?

    I'll put my thoughts in comments - would love to hear yours :)

    jordan avatar
    jordanSA•...
    psychology · 2.7
    I had a similar response to the first point — the compulsion to procreate is life - it's the least selfish thing one can do. We went from single celled organisms to fish to apes to us because of that compulsion (along with a bunch of other stuff)....
    philosophy
    biology
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    evolution
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  • sness avatar

    Is having children selfish or selfless? Controversial question/interesting discussion time!

    Is having children a selfish or a selfless act?

    I'll put my thoughts in comments - would love to hear yours :)

    T
    thehunmonkgroup•...
    group dynamics · 0.8
    Can I push on your perspectives a bit?   I wonder if it's accurate to frame the "felt sense compulsion" as selfish? Maybe it's much bigger than the individual, an evolutionary force being pushed through each of us in different ways?...
    psychology
    sociology
    environmental science
    evolutionary biology
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  • jordan avatar
    jordanSA•...
    psychology · 2.7

    What cool new technologies are you seeing emerge? How do we know we can trust them?

    Curious about all, but I'd especially love to see non-AI versions, like: New batteries for solar: storing heat in big piles of dirt A while back Tommy mentioned cowfart backpacks Maybe it's something old for you, but we're not in your field so we don't know about it yet Even...
    environmental science
    technology
    energy
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    4
  • Arun avatar
    Arun•...
    philosophy · 1.4

    A future I love is more village than city.

    Perhaps there's a sci-fi version here where humans become much much better at cities, but the version I like at the moment is Village 2.0. I want to keep networked, light-speed global communication, so knowledge can continue to evolve, enrich, and compound....
    philosophy
    sociology
    urban planning
    environmental science
    technology
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    1
  • Shera JoyCry avatar
    Shera JoyCry•...
    environmental issues · 1.4

    A Future to love - POLOWF

    Seeing this future, this parallel universe that already exists if even only in the mind. A world where eating animals is a thing of the past.  In the future humans have chosen to have a more sustainable world and longevity with higher quality of life....
    nutrition
    public health
    environmental science
    sustainable agriculture
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